By Between the Bars and Goonie
We see androgyny everywhere these days from David Bowie to Hillary Clinton. Androgyny is the mixing of feminine and masculine characteristics. That can be in how we dress, how we look, and how we act.
Lets take a look at the 50's as an example.
In this time all women wore dresses for the most part and wore high heels and curled their hair. 
Now women in the workforce have become androgynous by wearing suits similar menswear. Have they lost their femininity? This would be psychological androgyny because women do this to show that they have just as much strenght as their male counterparts.
Another example of psychological androgyny is in the video posted above of the band Of Montreal. The lead singer Kevin Barnes displays 
feminine qualities in his appearence, voice, and his persona on stage. This was probably strongly influenced by David Bowie who made androgyny popular in the 1980's.
Androgyny can be confused with bisexuality, transgender, and believing you were born the wrong gender. For these people they do not always feel that they fit into specific gender role norms. Is "not fitting in" an issue that is recent (after 60's) in American society? Are defined gender roles important in a society? Do you think that androgynous characteristics have become part of the norm, or are they still looked at as outcasts and why?
Here is a link to a magazine called Androgyny to see more of the styles for men and women
14 comments:
Firstly, Kudos to Between the Bars and Goonie, great post! After thinking about what you posted I think that you raise a good point, that besides people that try to appear androgynous, there is a type "professional androgyny" that happens when women begin to wear professional attire usually used for men, I think we accept type, but the outlandish androgyny, like the attire used by Kevin Barnes might land you in the outcast area, I think that we will always have the issue of wanting to fit in, as humans we have a need to socialize, we actually practice the same rituals socially, so I find it easy to identify certain social cues, we are on a system, and subconsciously we do practically the same system of social actions with every person we meet with, wanting to belong leads to grouping, which leads to tiers of command, through our desire to be controlled. Uncanny isn't it? How simple human behavior leads to complex civilizations with different types of sociological orders! As for David Bowie, his talent speaks for him, I don't care what he wears!
I do not think that specific gender roles have become as important in society. Many women are wearing suits more and taking higher up positions in many differnt types of corporations. Many men are taking to stay at home with his kids while his wife is working. I think society is reaching an equilibrium where women can be tough and men can be sensitive. As for dress, I think we are reaching an equilibrium there as well. Lately, I have been noticing how many men and women wear similar styles of shirts and pants. The world is changing, and androgyny is becoming socially acceptable.
I believe absolutelyido nailed it. Androgyny is definitely becoming more socially acceptable in the present day world. If a man wore women's clothes many years ago he would have been looked at as weak and powerless because he was showing feminine characteristics. It was shameful if a man wished to be a woman due to the lack of power women possessed in the past. However, today's society is more accepting to the changes between masculinity and femininity. A balance does exist between the two because there is an equal distribution of power therefore each side is acceptable to be a part of.
When women dress like men I feel they have penis envy and wish for the power men possess. I think some women get stuck in the past and still believe there is a power struggle between the two genders. But in reality there is not much of a dividing line... women can do almost anything men can do.There are strengths in feminine qualities and other strengths in masculine characteristics.
As for the question about if defined gender roles are important to society, I would have to answer yes. The world will always need to feel that sense of Marxism where one gender is worth more than the other just to feel safe that someone is in control. But whether the dominant gender should be male or female is all up to the world around us.
I agree partly about the androgyny becoming more socially acceptable, but I feel that by becoming more socially acceptable, androgyny is becoming more outcasted, For example, during the civil rights movement, civil rights became popular, but then new radical groups rose to violently express their views, note; that androgyny and civil rights are two totally different things, but I think that the more androgyny becomes accepted, the stronger the opposing force will be, I am waiting for the FCC to find a way to ban androgynous figures from television!
I think that people in todays society accept more to business androgny more than people like bi-sexuals and who are confused as there roles. People are becoming more accepting of it in some nature, but we still dont allow gay and lesbian marriages and a lot of people still look down on gay rights. I mostly agree with absolutelyido about our society becoming more of an equilibrium. I still think in some sort men still have more power, considering men still get paid more then woman for doing the exact same jobs. I dont think it is right, but i think that it is getting to a point where equilibrium can easily be reached.
In our world, we have these (which I learned last year in a Constitutional Law class) "Evolving Standards of Decency". In the forties, women in business or what have you, wearing a pantsuit would be completely unacceptable. This status quo is ever-changing as absolutelyido pointed out. It is more acceptable for men to stay home "stay-at-home dads" if you will.
But to me, this isnt the definition of androgyny.
Androgyny to me is those models that we so often see- women who are stick thin, super-tall and very flat (they have nothing really feminine about them). I think this sells more often than not, which could play into how sexuality is percieved. I think, even though people today try to deny it, that there is an underlying belief from long ago that men are more dominant.
Here are some links to the models I referenced:
http://www.catwalkqueen.tv/androgynous.jpg
http://media.photobucket.com/image/androgynous%20models/davillageradio/omahyra_mota_post2.jpg
http://frillr.com/files/images/Dolce%20&%20Gabbana%20Spring-Summer%202008%20Womens%20Ad%20Campaign3.jpg
I have to agree with what a lot of people are saying about the gender roles and adrogyny so far. I think that up until recently, women were expected to fit into these certain defined gender roles. In the 1800s, women were expected to wear large dresses with corsets and their hair long and in a fashionable way. They were expected to be proper and always courteous.
Roles such as these have been long defined for men and women in society up until recently. Women were expected to be the "stay at home moms" while the men were the breadwinners for the family. This goes along with the Marxist idea that in the past, men were thought of as superior to women.
In todays society however, women and men are defying these traditional gender roles and branching out to make their own, unique styles and thus leaving the old ideas behind. It is now acceptable to see a "stay at home dad" with a working mother.I read an article recently that discussed the rising percentage of women as the main breadwinner for the household, while the men were staying at home with the kids. This story alone perfectly describes societys changing roles. Men and women can be who they want to be and I believe society is starting to become more open to these ideas.
i believe androgyny is any blending or combination of male and female traits. it has definitely becoming more acceptable especially in clothing, as someone pointed out how it is now acceptable for women to wear suits where it once wasn't.
looking at it through a marxists lens i believe it would be beneficial to women since men have power, to become more like men. for men this could cause castration anxiety.
i agree with the fact that it has become more accepted, and that i think that it is becoming balance for men and women to have equal roles in society. like the example that was brought up earlier about the women going to work and the man being the one staying home with the kids. however i do not think that when women dress in business suits that they have penis envy over the power that men possess because i dont really believe that men really hold power over women anymore, i mean there was a women who ran for president this past election...
Hey The Puzzlers back! Anyway the whole subject matter about androgny is something we kind of brought upon ourselves. How do you ask? Well think about it after years of gender based lifestyles one can think that people would be rebellous towards it. In this day and age I have seen a lot of it boys acting like girls girls dressing like guys, what the heck happened?
I've learned that people to some degree are just uncomfortable being the way they are and thats why they have "that" sort of envy. I agree with alot of what everyone is saying about men and women trying to be different, but I think going as far as dressing up like a women when people can see your a dude is kind of messed up. No offense. Well see ya soon!
I agree with Kellie and the fact that androgyny is almost a subconcious penis envy for women. Its just become alot more mainstream. But this brings about a question...what about guys who wear girl pants? I dont just mean tight guy pants, I mean pants straight from the girl section? Are they now trying to earn their "power" back? Like in society when guys had all the power, and now its equal and may eventually flip flop to women having most of the "power". Do they wear those pants in an almost "vagina envy" if you will?
I think that defined gender roles in this society is not important. Androgynous has become part of the norm these days because in today’s society who is it that defines “normal”. In today’s world androgynous characteristics is just another part of life.
In the 90’s it wasn’t even normal to have cell phones but in only a decade every time you turn around you see a cell. in the 90’s only gangs and the army really had tattoos and it was taboo to see them anywhere, but today you see them all the time. things are a lot different from the last decade. 10 years ago you could define normal but today you cannot because no matter what you do in today’s world ‘what you see isn’t always what you get’.
WorldUnCn, would you mind explaining exactly what you mean? I fail to see how normalcy was defined any better in the 90's, there has always been a majority of people that have similar interests, the people that we consider normal, that's the definition of normal, the style that the most people conform too, and as for not always getting what you see, that has been the way things are, The idiom, "Don't judge a book by it's cover" has been around since 1944, and long before that, people have and will always, disguise themselves, depending on whatever situation they are dealing with, as for androgyny, androgyny has been around for centuries, Queen Hatshepsut of ancient Egypt, liked to dress in men's clothing, so, no I don't believe androgyny will be truly accepted anytime soon, hasn't happened yet anyway, and people still fear different styles, even if they hide it, because truly, people want to fit in and be like everyone else, or better, like in Tyson's book when she states that in capitalism, advertisements make people ask themselves if they are good enough, and we worry if we are good enough, because we want to fit in, if androgyny was to be accepted, it wouldn't be in America, our economy depends to much on competition and conformity.
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