Link to the story of Charles Schmid, the Pied Piper of Tuscon, upon which Joyce Carol Oates based her story, "Where Are You Going? Where Have You Been?"
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/schmid/sand_1.html
Joyce Carol Oates says, in reference to being inspired to write by the stories of serial killers, ". . .the serial killer is, abstractedly, an analogue of the imagination's caprices and amorality; the sense that, no matter the dictates and even the wishes of the conscious social self, the life or will or purpose of the imagination is incomprehensible, unpredictable."
She mentions the archetype of Death and the Maiden, Bob Dylan's It's All Over Now, Baby Blue, and the story of Charles Schmid as inspirations for her story. In light of Oates's explanation, what are your thoughts on her story/her inspiration/the imagination?
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/schmid/sand_1.html
Joyce Carol Oates says, in reference to being inspired to write by the stories of serial killers, ". . .the serial killer is, abstractedly, an analogue of the imagination's caprices and amorality; the sense that, no matter the dictates and even the wishes of the conscious social self, the life or will or purpose of the imagination is incomprehensible, unpredictable."
She mentions the archetype of Death and the Maiden, Bob Dylan's It's All Over Now, Baby Blue, and the story of Charles Schmid as inspirations for her story. In light of Oates's explanation, what are your thoughts on her story/her inspiration/the imagination?
9 comments:
Keeping Friend's comparison with schmid in mind it answers several questions about Friend's own knowledge. First is the sense that he knows all. It would come from his having known all the other girls in the town and thus he has a magnificent web to draw information from.
It explains as well the comments made upon his first sighting of her outside the burger joint. He knows he can draw any female he desires in to his grasp and is willing to state it out loud. That she will come to him is known as soon as he decides he wants her.
This seems to make him a passage for all the people of this town. He is the one who introduces sex to the girls and acts as a changing point in the lives of adolescents.
What was the Speedway? A place, a road, a building, or some sort of drug?
quite an interesting story indeed.
Oates brings up a very interesting point of view in that serial killers are representative of the terrible things our imaginations can fathom but our physical selves would never dare commit. while we often believe that we have complete control over ourselves, our imagination is the one exception. whatever we come into contact with becomes imbedded within our minds and is made accessible to the imagination. no matter how terrible an instance is, we cannot stop ourselves from letting the mind wander.
not to sound like a future murderer, but i'm sure that i'm not alone in knowing i have had thoughts of things i would not dare do. anything from sneaking out of the house (my guilt is debatable) to stealing from a store to maliciously scorning a classmate. murder is merely an extreme of this pattern.
the "caprices and amorality" of the mind to which oates refers are quite recognizable and relatable. random thoughts are constantly pouring through our heads and of course we have no morals in them since who's to know? our minds are our safe havens.
in reference to the story as her inspiration, one point that stuck with me was the treatment he received from his birth mother. this seems to be an obvious reason for his hatred and mistreatment of women. it's like he's trying to get back at her with misplaced anger. i believe the behavior smitty displayed showed in arnold but the circumstances of family trouble showed in connie.
i guess you're right brandon. i DO always have something to say. :)
Accepting that we do all have these thoughts in our minds about actions to be taken for I know they grace my conscious thoughts, then what is the difference in them. Is it a difference in frequency, in strength, or even in oppurtunity? Do we refrain from them by considering the consequences or by knowing it is wrong to begin with? Is there actually a difference?
I personally see these vicious thoughts in terms of my reactions to the results and the consequences of these actions.
the river flows past, are you asking about the difference between thoughts from person to person or the difference between thoughts of an average person to a serial killer? i'm a bit confused by your last response...
and could you explain your last sentence? i don't mean to sound dense but i'm haning trouble extracting it's meaning.
My apologies, what I meant to ask is what is it in our own mind that prevents us from acting out the impulses that we all have, the impulses to hurt and to kill.
As for my last sentence in the previous post, I meant to say that when thoughts to hurt enter my own mind I am prevented from acting them out by thinking about the consequences for my actions and, more importanly I think, my own reaction to my actions. I say more important because, considering Schmitty's own unconcern with the results of his actions it was only his own guilt that would have held him back. However he did not seem able to synthesize his emotions about the act before hand. For him it was an experiment of sorts. At least that is how it seems to this one. Could the difference between individuals such as ourselves and those who are known as evil be an ability to predict our emotions?
That's a thoughtful distinction, the river flows past. Being able to predict one's emotions implies cognition. When you think of people who are evil, sometimes you think of animal instinct or people who are ruled, when it comes down to it, by their baser instincts.
OKay so i read the entire article. which i don't know if I would even call it an article more like a short synopses of "SMITTY's" life. This story creeped me out. This man murdered young girls and lured and manipulated them into loving them without any remorse or feelings at all. After reading it I really do see all the familiarities between this strange case and Joyce Carol Oates short story. After reading this I want to read Crime and Punishment, because Smitty said while in prison he read it and didn't understand how the author (starts with an r and is really long Russian looking name lol) who had murdered felt remorse which shows how "devilish" Smitty and Aarnold Friend really were.
the river flows past, i think you unknowingly answered your own question. our guilt and conscious knowledge of what society deems right and wrong stop us from carrying out violent acts that our mind conceives.
the thing that truly separates serial killers is that they either have no grasp of this concept or they have no wish to. many are mentally unstable. some simply feel that society, or a specific person, has wronged them to such a point that killing is justified.
this story was very similar to where are you going. They both had a boy/guy lure girls in and take them to their death. they would say anything to them. In both the story's they both were both not very attractive and they would sometimes use that to there advantages.
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